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If it Works…the Bevel Up Plane Debate

10 comments
14 years ago
Hand Planing

In last week’s Wood Talk Online Radio, Marc, Matt, and I fielded an email about differences between bevel up and bevel down planes.  This led to a forum post which led to the Sauer & Steiner blog where some plane illuminati were chiming in.  This is one of those pins or tails first debates that can get people very much up in arms about what is right and what is wrong.  My thoughts are: does it work for you?  Good, go with it!

Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother

This is my Veritas bevel up smoothing plane.  I love it.  It came with a blade ground at 25 degrees that works really well.  The mass of the plane and the adjustible mouth allows me to do really fine work on most woods.  A little more than a year ago I bought another blade for it, this one ground at 50 degrees.  Combined with the 12 degree bed I have a 62 degree cutting angle now.  There is nothing that this plane cannot handle now and often times I will forget to check grain direction and end up planing against the grain only to get smooth and tear out free results.  It is a little harder to push through the work with that steep blade angle so I make a point to remove the high angle blade when working with easier, straight grained woods.

The thing is, I seem to have been taken in by my the wood lately in my lumber mill trips and I end up with beautiful swirly grained Walnut or eye popping Birds Eye Maple.  Lately I incorporated some Cherry that I milled myself from my in law’s yard.  I was using a crotch piece in particular and easy planing went out the window.  So my 50 degree blade has been in the plane a lot.

Here is the crux of this post.  My bevel up plane is just so easy to Smoothing Plane Shavingschange blades that I do it more often and end up fighting the wood a lot less.  It takes no time and with set screws in the body, no adjustment and I’m back to getting thin wispy shavings and a great finish on my boards.  What shocked me is on a whim I dialed the blade back about a half turn and started planing again after I switched blades.  I was getting really thins shavings before and didn’t think I could really go any thinner.  I was wrong.  Hopefully this picture will give you the idea.  I didn’t get out a dial indicator to check but the top shaving is definitely thicker as you can see by the darker color.  The bottom shaving has to be less than 1 thousandth thick as it is basically transparent.  The finish on the Walnut I was working went from smooth to mirror polished!  So I don’t really care if my bevel up blade will wear prematurely and be harder to sharpen.  This plane just works!

‘Nuff said.

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Morton

I love my bevel-up Jack, though I continue to need more practice (with sharpening too). I’ve been in love with the LN 4 1/2 since I saw the bronze anniversary edition. I made the mistake of asking Deneb from LN if they were going to make it again (bronze 4 1/2) and he said they had some in stock, about $600. What a mistake that was. Oh boy….

Bob Rozaieski

Shannon,
A good post that brings up a good point. I don’t use bevel up planes, mostly because I prefer woodies, which are all bevel down. But I think you hit on an important point here. The ability to switch blades to achieve a different “bed” angle, the reason these planes are so often touted, is a benefit…..for smoothing. I can see a real benefit to this feature in a smoother, and you have just proved that. Handling tricky grain requires messing with angles. The bevel up smoothers excel here.

However, for a jack or jointer plane, I feel the benefit is lost. In a jack, tearout is unimportant (it’s a roughing plane), and in a jointer, a standard bed angle is sufficient for flattening and making joinery. If the surface is required to be completely tearout free, you’re going to hit it with the smooth plane anyway.

My recommendation has always been:

-Use a woodie for a jack plane: They’re light weight, have massively thick irons and wide mouths for hogging off wood. There’s no competition when it comes to planing rough milled lumber in my opinion. If you don’t do rough planing by hand (i.e. you use a power jointer and planer to dress rough sawn timber) a jack plane isn’t what you’re looking for.

-For jointing, a standard bevel down jointer gets the call. The need to switch irons out doesn’t exist in a jointer. Metal or wood is ok, but metal will require less maintenance in the long run and will likely have a sole that remains truer over time. The bevel down blade will require less maintenance in the long run and the finish left by the 45 degree bed is satisfactory for joinery and flattening. If someone who does most work by machine wants to introduce some hand work into their arsenal, this should be the first plane they get. It’s great for truing power jointed edges before gluing panels, tapering, and flattening glued up panels that won’t fit through the planer.

-For the smoother, this is where you go for the bevel up version with an extra blade or two. This should be the second plane a hybrid woodworker gets. With the extra blades, this plane will excel at smoothing all but the gnarliest stuff. The additional wear bevel on the back will be insignificant. Since you are taking such a fine shaving, the edge should last a long time between honings and the wear bevel should be minimal compared to using one of these planes to hog off wood.

That’s my take on it. Of course, you know what they say about opinions :). But that’s what makes the craft so appealing. There are always several ways to get from point A to point B, and everyone is free to choose the path they prefer most.

Dan (from the love of wood)

Thanks Shannon. Bevel up planes offer a great deal of versatility with the ability to change angles on the fly (with extra blades of course.) I’m particularly interested in seeing the LN toothed blade in action… one day. But for me they lack the romantic hand tool feel that the classic bevel down planes have.

Tim

Strangely enough I have been reading a lot about this lately. It really is subjective. I own the Veritas Bevel Up Smoother and it’s great. However, I like the feel of Lie Nielsen bevel down Smoother a bit better. Does it change the results? Nope. I can get a glassy finish from both.

BTW, people actually cut dovetails pins first?!? Say it isn’t so!

Tim

Gary

So do you put a camber on your Bevel Up blades like you do on your bevel down ones?

    Shannon

    Gary, I do have a camber on my bevel up smoother, but I have left my jack blade straight and only clipped off the corners on my joinery plane.

Wade

Interesting that you mention that the Veritas bevel up smoother came with the 25° bevel, when I check the website it states that i comes with the 38° bevel. The one I’m thinking of is not the low angle smoother plane it’s called the Bevel up Smoother plane with the blade that is compapable with the Veritas Low Angle bevel up Jack plane.

Thanks for the article informative…

    Adam Raisch

    Hey Wade! I think that you are referring to the 25 deg. blade angle plus the 12 deg. bed angle. With a micro bevel the total angle is 38+ deg. Low angle and bevel up are usually the same.

    Adam Raisch

    I just looked on their site. You are correct about the blade angle. My apologies! The bed angle is the same however.

    Shannon

    I’m guessing this has changed in the 7 or 8 years since I bought my Veritas BU smoother because I have a 25 degree blade that came with it. I do also have the 38 degree but I had to buy that separately. Times change and I guess the higher angle frog/bevel craze had them shift to include the higher blade as standard equipment.