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RWW 102 The Allan Breed Project

9 comments
14 years ago
Hand Tools     Joinery

No friends I didn’t start an 80s rock band, but I decided to experiment with a new (to me) dovetailing method that Allan Breed espouses.  This was featured on Rough Cut by Tommy Mac and I was anxious to try it out.  This is essentially a pins first hand cut dovetail, but Allan’s method of sawing out the tails is off the wall.  You saw in my post earlier this week what my miserable first attempt looked like and I wanted to share in video how this technique differs from the “mainstream”.  My 4th and 5th attempts looks much better and at least the structural integrity of the joints is sound.

I will be curious to see if any of you give this a try and if you do send me pictures or it didn’t happen…

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Jonathan

I will have to give this a try. Hopefully my dozuki won’t fall off my pinkie 😉

Derek Olson / Oldwolf

I have been waiting to see this video since you talked about this technique on Twitter, You never disappoint Shannon, marking the tails with the 3/4 chisel was a “why didn’t I think of that?” moment for me, but as I watched you work two thoughts came to mind.

1. like you mentioned I wonder if there is something to the filing of Alan’s saw teeth that would ease the cut. I have made upsidedown and backwards cuts similar to this with a pull saw in the past and that makes me wonder.

2. The other thought as I watched more is I wonder if the hand position, held with only the pinkie, would work better if the wrist were turned slightly so the heel of the hand were positioned more on the handle creating a kind of lever between the two points on your hand and maybe giving a more solid grip with maybe more control… of course I’m writing this sitting at my computer and no where near my shop to test out my own thoughts.

Again, Great stuff man,
Cheers
Oldwolf

Daniel Wise

Looks like a new saw design should be in works (blade with the teeth facing up). It seems like I have a natural tendency to want to stand over the top of the work piece. I think I would feel the urge to kneel down on top of my workbench while sawing backwards…Hard to explain but that is certainly different.

Jay Tennier

I never saw the RoughCuts episode so I’m not sure how closely you’re following Allan’s technique but I noticed that when you cut the pins, using the chisel sides to mark the location, you cut the angle from wide, at the front of the board, to narrow, at the back. If you had cut from narrow to wide, front-to-back, instead then you would have been able to remove all of the waste with one chisel and maybe slam through the final baseline cut with just a couple of whacks without having to worry about cutting the pin sides.

Just a thought though I’m not sure how it’d work in practice.

Sam Breed

The upside-down saw trick works much better with a big handsaw. A nice long saw lets you get up enough speed that you can do it in only two or three passes and it has enough weight that it will want to stay straight. Also, you may find that the handle on a small backsaw like the one in the video pokes you uncomfortably in the heel of your hand. I usually stand on one of those bench-top boxes you mentioned when I do it in order to keep my arm pretty straight and have more power.

    Shannon

    Thanks for stopping by and sharing that tip. I figured a longer saw would help with that. Just the reason I needed to give Mark Harrell at Bad Axe Toolworks a call!

Steve Branam

I haven’t seen that Rough Cut episode yet, but I was at Al’s school in October for a weekend carving class. Sunday just before heading home, I asked him a question about dovetailing details in order to get a good fit. Little did I know!

He said, “Here, I’ll show you” and proceeded to bang out a 3-tail joint in 3/8″ pine and mahogany as quick as you please. I believe the chisel he used was the narrow dimension, not the wide, as Jay suggested above. BAM BAM BAM each side to remove the waste.

Then he did his plumb saw thing. As Sam mentioned, the saw was long enough that it ate through the cut in one pass. I think it was a closed saw handle.

I have yet to give this a try. You can see the result at the bottom of this post: http://www.closegrain.com/2010/10/taking-al-breeds-ball-and-claw-carving.html.

I hope to take another class from him soon, so maybe I’ll be able to talk him into letting me videotape him doing it, with some emphasis on the saw handling. He was very generous with his information. I highly recommend taking a class from him if you ever get the chance.

    Shannon

    Steve, the Breed School is on my list. Not that I need and excuse to travel to Maine anyway.

Robert R. Lindh

The idea of gravity assist is well demonstrated in the Rob Cosman Method.(And I am not paid in any manner by this man!)…His dovetail saw is by far the best I have used!!!And I have 3 of the others who say they are best,a big dollar investment until I ran onto his saw!!!He stresses none to minute pressure when sawing,there fore a straight cut…and this is true…His saw is weighted by a heaver than normal saw back brass spine which creates enough pressure on its own to saw dovetails.Investment in his saw,my 4th…..was well worth it.Gravity technique,stressed in ALL methods of sawing (and I stress ALL methods of sawing.) is the only way to go,if you want an exact cut.